Curse

lord_shar · Dec 01, 2005, 10:52 PM // 22:52

I'm not naming any names, but if there's a point to be made, please make it. Arguing an issue to death without any definitive course, focus, nor conclusion isn't doing anyone any favors. There's no need to keep digging a deeper hole...

capitalist · Dec 01, 2005, 11:07 PM // 23:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by gslavik

Do you honestly believe that everyone takes screenshots when they pay upfront?

Quote:

Originally Posted by capitalist

0. Yes I do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gslavik

0. I disagree with your answer. I do not believe that EVERYONE makes a screenshot of EVERY transaction.

This is great, because I never said everyone takes a screenshot of every transaction. Which reminds again of the reasons why I had previously submitted the following posts:

Quote:

Originally Posted by capitalist

I am playing nicely...

Person X is trying to use what we call a "Straw Man Argument." The Straw Man fallacy is when you misrepresent someone else's position so that it can be attacked more easily, knock down that misrepresented position, then conclude that the original position has been demolished. It's a fallacy because it fails to deal with the actual arguments that have been made.

Once again, after all the appeals, the defense rests.

~$~

Quote:

Originally Posted by capitalist

Double post and off-topic, however, the tendency of the people that attack the LBSRA is to use many of these methods:

If you are new to the Internet, allow me to explain how to debate in this medium. When one person makes any kind of statement, all you need to do is apply one of these methods to make it sound stupid. Then go on the offensive.

1. Turn someone’s generality into an absolute. For example, if someone makes a general statement that Americans celebrate Christmas, point out that some people are Jewish and so anyone who thinks that ALL Americans celebrate Christmas is stupid. (Bonus points for accusing the person of being anti-Semitic.)

2. Turn someone’s factual statements into implied preferences. For example, if someone mentions that not all Catholic priests are pedophiles, accuse the person who said it of siding with pedophiles.

3. Turn factual statements into implied equivalents. For example, if someone says that Ghandi didn’t eat cows, accuse the person of stupidly implying that cows deserve equal billing with Gandhi.

4. Omit key words. For example, if someone says that people can’t eat rocks, accuse the person of being stupid for suggesting that people can’t eat. Bonus points for arguing that some people CAN eat pebbles if they try hard enough.

5. Assume the dumbest interpretation. For example, if someone says that he can run a mile in 12 minutes, assume he means it happens underwater and argue that no one can hold his breath that long.

6. Hallucinate entirely different points. For example, if someone says apples grow on trees, accuse him of saying snakes have arms and then point out how stupid that is.

7. Use the intellectual laziness card. For example, if someone says that ice is cold, recommend that he take graduate courses in chemistry and meteorology before jumping to stupid conclusions that display a complete ignorance of the complexity of ice.

Cowsn · Dec 01, 2005, 11:09 PM // 23:09

this thread was designed to inform people of what LBS offers as an academy, and how much it costs, ect. Why do tons of people argue and complain here...i dont get it. This thread shouldnt be tons of people screaming at one another. if you have a problem you should talk to the person that you have the problem with.

i mean, this is a guild wars related thread and we are talking about some crazy laws and stuff and prosecuting people.

^^^ posts like that are good, really funny reads. especially because i have had some customers that reply the same way . lol

a quick question...why do so many people dig themselves into huge holes. they say one thing, then get proven wrong by 12 other people. then bring up something completely differednt and get shown wrong again. just give it up.

Jetdoc · Dec 01, 2005, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Too funny. You have to admit that the concept of the academy (and running in general) is a bit controversial. People have to find places to air their dirty laundry, and this seems to be a magnet given the cost and size of LBS's school.

lord_shar · Dec 01, 2005, 11:16 PM // 23:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jetdoc

Too funny. You have to admit that the concept of the academy (and running in general) is a bit controversial. People have to find places to air their dirty laundry, and this seems to be a magnet given the cost and size of LBS's school.

Agreed. The worse part is that some posters can't even logically argue to make ANY valid point... it's degenerating into a "no it didnt", "yes I did" debacle, or more precisely, "Yes because of X-reason, proof-X" followed by "No, cuz Stone-Cold said so!"

You get the picture. Some are probably continuing to argue to releave a bruised ego. Well, the act is not fooling many here...

EDIT: Even mediocre combat strategist know when to back out of a fight they have no chance of winning. Let's see if the participants can accurately recognize their present scenario, instead of letting personal rage get in the way and further cloud proper judgement.

capitalist · Dec 01, 2005, 11:21 PM // 23:21

If someone had mentioned that "Stone-Cold said so," I would have to assume he did, and therefore, that said someone was correct.

Jimmy · Dec 01, 2005, 11:27 PM // 23:27

run a few times before and not getting pay for what i have done

the guy running me and my friends was from LBS , too bad I cannot remember his name.He was wearing Fissure armor<the leggin,Helmet,gloves and Boots but no chest

> he did not keep my gold after he failed 3 times, i gave up on him and run to droknar myself with the help of my friends.Maybe he is graduate maybe he is not. I am not sure i trusted him cuz he is from LBS and he should be handling this litte run easy

i am so dissapoionted about his service

not flaming, just a little complaining.LBS Academy should provide the students with more training before they actually get into the businese.Not just let average joe paying 15ecto and looking ugly failing 3 times in front of his customizers...

gslavik · Dec 01, 2005, 11:45 PM // 23:45

How have I failed to make my claim? I posed a question which is still unanswered. How do you enforce your policy? (kicking someone from your guild is not a very good answer). Saying that I have no merit in a case against you because you certified someone is not logical to me. As for showing proof, maybe I am a level 20 monk who needs his Droknar's armor to go farm Underworld from which I stand to gain financially. I still don't have merit?

I also asked the question about "everyone" ... in this case, you have to answer the question in relation to "everyone"?

If I ask, "is everyone dead" and you say "Yes." Then that means no one is alive. If you show that someone is alive, then obviously your answer is wrong.

lord_shar · Dec 02, 2005, 12:00 AM // 00:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by gslavik

How have I failed to make my claim? I posed a question which is still unanswered. How do you enforce your policy? (kicking someone from your guild is not a very good answer). Saying that I have no merit in a case against you because you certified someone is not logical to me. As for showing proof, maybe I am a level 20 monk who needs his Droknar's armor to go farm Underworld from which I stand to gain financially. I still don't have merit?

The problem here is that you want an answer that goes beyond what is reasonable for a hypothetical question. Until you have a REAL case to argue, no facts can be present to support either side.

Kicking a hypothetical dishonest LBSRA member and refunding the lost payment is more than reasonable to correct your hypothetical question based on real, existing laws, but it seems like you cannot accept this answer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gslavik

If I ask, "is everyone dead" and you say "Yes." Then that means no one is alive. If you show that someone is alive, then obviously your answer is wrong.

You're arguing based on programmer's logic, which doesn't work in the legal system unless it has relevance to the present case. You have to establish relevance first before you can form a logical conclusion. I'm sure LBS can say the above a lot more accurately, but it doesn't take a lawyer to realize that relevance is required.

DeathDealer · Dec 02, 2005, 12:15 AM // 00:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by gslavik

How have I failed to make my claim? I posed a question which is still unanswered. How do you enforce your policy? (kicking someone from your guild is not a very good answer). Saying that I have no merit in a case against you because you certified someone is not logical to me. As for showing proof, maybe I am a level 20 monk who needs his Droknar's armor to go farm Underworld from which I stand to gain financially. I still don't have merit?

Put them in front of a firing squad???...its a game...you could kick them out of the guild..thats about the extent of it. You cant call the FBI.
There is no guild wars court of law. what type of answer are you expecting to get? This is what is confusing me about your posts.

lord_shar · Dec 02, 2005, 12:36 AM // 00:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by capitalist

Stone-Cold said so!

On a more serious note, what does gslavic believe is an legal and appropriate solution to punishing a hypothically fraudulent LBRSA runner? I'm really curious if his proposed punishment fits the hypothetical crime...

lord_shar · Dec 02, 2005, 12:56 AM // 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by killer toast

i think he wants anet to ban them

It's possible for ANET to ban such a player, but this would be well outside LBSRA's jurisdiction. For the ban to take effect

1) The victim MUST provide corroborating screen shots and file a report at http://support.guildwars.com, under the "Ask a question" tab

2) Even if a ban is issued, it will only be short term (1-7 days), unless the guilty player is a repeat/career GW criminal, in which case, the ban can be permanent.

Either way, the party reporting the EULA violation won't be updated by ANET through e-mail, nor will any refund will be issued.

gslavik · Dec 02, 2005, 02:17 AM // 02:17

There isn't anything you can do to stop the fraudulent from scamming people. That is the whole point! You can't prevent it! He can still use your name if he has that bow.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_shar

On a more serious note, what does gslavic believe is an legal and appropriate solution to punishing a hypothically fraudulent LBRSA runner? I'm really curious if his proposed punishment fits the hypothetical crime...

lord_shar · Dec 02, 2005, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by gslavik

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_shar

On a more serious note, what does gslavic believe is an legal and appropriate solution to punishing a hypothically fraudulent LBRSA runner? I'm really curious if his proposed punishment fits the hypothetical crime...

There isn't anything you can do to stop the fraudulent from scamming people. That is the whole point! You can't prevent it! He can still use your name if he has that bow.

You're still dodging my question. Given your assertion "There isn't anything you can do to stop the fraudulent from scamming people," which we ALL accept, what is your definition of an appropriate punishment for anyone within LBSRA's organization who commits such an EULA violation? Please remember to keep your reply relevant to this thread.

gslavik · Dec 02, 2005, 05:38 AM // 05:38

Nice try turning the question back to me.

So, LBS, what would be your course of action? I say hide it under a mat so that it doesn't spread that LBS is scamming people.

lord_shar, I already know the sequence of action that I would take if such a member appeared as a member of my guild.

EDIT: Like I said before, the ALMIGHTY GOD will take care of that ... </sarcasm> His reputation will be ruined, simple as that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by lord_shar

You're still dodging my question. Given your assertion "There isn't anything you can do to stop the fraudulent from scamming people," which we ALL accept, what is your definition of an appropriate punishment for anyone within LBSRA's organization who commits such an EULA violation? Please remember to keep your reply relevant to this thread.

lord_shar · Dec 02, 2005, 05:47 AM // 05:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by gslavik

Nice try turning the question back to me.

Nice try at what? You've raised your point about "fraud cannot be prevented." -- Point acknowleged. Therefore, it can only be addressed post-mortem. So, how would you address it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by gslavik

So, LBS, what would be your course of action? I say hide it under a mat so that it doesn't spread that LBS is scamming people.

LBS has already answered this. Why ask a question you don't want the answer for? Hint: Read LBS's final response to eol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gslavik

lord_shar, I already know the sequence of action that I would take if such a member appeared as a member of my guild.

If you know, please share. I'd like to see how your answer compares with what has already been discussed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gslavik

EDIT: Like I said before, the ALMIGHTY GOD will take care of that ... </sarcasm> His reputation will be ruined, simple as that.

All I see is a 10' deep hole, and it's getting dug deeper by its creator, still standing in the same hole. Please, answer the question instead of wasting bandwidth. So far, all you've demonstrated is that your bruised, vindictive ego is still hurting from the first verbal exchange. */sarcasm off*

Blue Steel · Dec 02, 2005, 06:02 AM // 06:02

Read posts #1016, #1009, and #826 in this thread. They really do answer all the questions that have been asked dozens of times by the same three people. If they cannot find the answers in those three posts, there isn't much hope for them.

fenix · Dec 02, 2005, 12:42 PM // 12:42

wow....everyone's arguments have gone downhill so quickly. but, to be fair, so have LBSRA's. Everyone has just given up and is throwing around random senseless insults and counter-insults.

The last 10 pages (or so) have just seemed to be a few people arguing that LSBRA are scammers, and even though they don't have evidence, it is obviously true, despite the reputation that LBSRA have. Then, LBS comes along with arguments that are supposedly technical legal terms and such, where in truth most of what was said I learned in high school Legal Studies class. A few more arguments later, LBS has repeated himself multiple times, as has everyone else, and this thread has gone nowhere.

Since there is suggestion that there has been a scam done on a player, by a LBSRA runner, there should be evidence of SOME sort. This (scam issue) should be started again as follows:

Scam suggestion --> evidence --> resolution

It's that simple.

thewinner · Dec 02, 2005, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Hey Lbs i want to join just need 15 ecto first (or is it still 10 shards and 10 ecto??) ;D

ign Miss Godblade =D

striderkaaru · Dec 02, 2005, 04:35 PM // 16:35

putting this thread back on track:
is there a discounted rate for striders?